To your second comment: that would be a woman overanalyzing the situation and second-guessing herself. If a guy is not congruent with his own sense of value, the result you mentioned may come about. Be congruent whatever your internal sense of value is.

To your first comment: you are asking if you can outframe the whole alpha-beta dynamic by just saying you’re too alpha to care, and essentially so alpha you don’t need to display how alpha you are? That sounds like a cop out to me. If you’re really so alpha, why shouldn’t everyone around you naturally be able to tell that, from your words and behaviors?

Just some thoughts for you to chew on.

PS: Your example about the 6-year-old special ed kid doesn’t fly. The value gap between us and a 6-year-old special ed kid we DON’T want to fuck is much, much larger than the value gap between us and a pretty 10 we DO want to fuck who is maybe a year or two younger than us.

Doesn’t that work the other way around? I would think that girls would be able to see through a guy, if upon minutes after meeting him, he starts saying things like “I guess you don’t look…THAT weird..” Are girls too stupid to think “Wow! He has low self esteem and he’s trying to put me down with these stupid subtle digs because he’s trying to fight for position….WEAKKKK”??

First off, congrats on the site, great work. I’ve been reading a lot of these articles not because I’m in desperate need of attracting women (but who can’t use more women?) , but rather finding the psychology behind all this incredibly interesting. I was curious as to what you thought about this..”The problem I have with lots of these techniques and the alpha male thing is that I feel like I’m already so confident or such an alpha male, that I just don’t give a fuck to care to exert any energy to display it unless it really benefits me. What are your thoughts on this? For example, in the Joe Rogan situation with the rude woman, I could care less about what she thought or what she told me to do so I might just walk away or ignore the request altogether. Basically take the path of least resistance since I could give a fuck what she thought and her opinion means nothing to me. To me it’s kind of like a 6 year old special ed kid saying he thinks you’re ugly. Who cares?

This kind of ties into dealing with women as well. Do I really have to “dumb things down” and give them a couple NEGS to vocalize to her I have the upper hand when deep down inside I already believe chances are she doesn’t stand a chance to have anything longterm with me? Because if I’m nice to a girl and not willing to say she looks fat or whatever, it’s not because I’m trying to suck up to her. I just don’t care about framing myself when I already know where I stand on the inside. I guess I think of it this way…if a little kid comes up to you and asks if you like his drawing…even if it sucks, you’ll say it’s great just to be nice. You don’t think about making sure you establish dominance or show that you’re an alpha male. Haha..I guess this can be taken as a very condescending point of view and probably means I really am even more cocky and alpha male-ish than the guys giving NEGS. But would you say that doesnt matter because the girls are unable to pick up on my confidence so I have to dumb it down and try to make it obvious? (even though to me, doing all this work framing and establishing position seems to be LESS alphamaleish) That’s how I feel. What are your thoughts?

Plenty of people react to Joe Rogan as you do, by wanting to call him insecure, a loud mouth, a wank. That reaction has a lot of information in it.

Ask yourself, why do I feel / think he is an utter wank and a loud mouth? What about him provokes such a visceral reaction in me?

You will learn a lot about yourself.

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To some other comments, I agree that Joe seems to be losing his temper at some points of the first video. That comes with being out and drinking at night, and being a man. Sometimes people lose their temper. Since we are all such optimizers, it’s easy to point a finger at that one thing and say it disqualifies Joe from being Alpha. But I think that reaction misses the forest for the trees.

However its his confidence in these abilities that makes him so comfortable getting into confrontations, to the point where he actually seems to be looking for a fight. The strongest people are those who have the ability to beat the ever loving shit out of you, but use every ounce of their energy not to strike you down when you provoke them. Think Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee.

As TinTin said before hes very reactive. Once people see they can get a rise out of you they will keep coming at you till you break, same principle applies if your a doormat.

By the way, thanks for not being like all the other slezy PUG’s that charge an arm and a leg for material that half the time ends up being overpriced crap. Your blog is intelligent and very well written (don’t get a big head on me now).

- The popped collar has spoken

Back to that article and videos, it showed to me once more that the concept of who’s reacting the most in the interaction is the one of lower value can be misleading as it has been for me when I first heard it. I become kind of stone faced and thought that I was then having higher value which was the total opposite because I could not simply connect with people totally hiding any emotion (even laughter) which are there to bond with people.

Although Joe seems to have his anger out of hands at some point and made me doubt as to wether he was really having the upper hand. The flexibility of behaviour he demonstrates (anger, humour, sarcasm to totally normal as he talks to somebdy else around) contrasts with the way this woman tries to have people joining in and witnessing what she attempts to point out as anti-social agressive behaviour as well as defending herself with a very monotonous tone of voice.

Thanks again for the analysis of this brilliant piece of social dynamic, this blog rocks ! Keep the articles coming, they’re money !