What Makes Women Hot (or, Understanding Attraction)
Many men misunderstand how attraction works.
They think women are attracted by good looks, or money, or material possessions — or worse yet, humor, honesty, integrity, or personality.
The people who believe the former are not so horribly disillusioned as those who believe the latter; but neither group is to be ashamed of these mistake beliefs, since there is a lot of interest (in the feminist media) in perpetuation these false notions.
When you ask a woman the time-honored question, “What do you look for in a guy?” I can guarantee you with 100% accuracy that her answer is going to contain some mixture of the following elements:
1. Sense of humor
2. Good looks
3. A good personality
4. Someone fun
5. A good listener
All the above is pure, unadulterated horseshit. Maybe that’s a bit too harsh; it is certainly self-delusional hypocrisy.
One of the most important lessons to learn about women is the following:
What they THINK they want, what they SAY they want, and what they are actually attracted to, are three entirely different things.
So when you ask a woman her opinion of what she wants, it’s a lot like asking her for an honest opinion of herself: what’s going to come out of her mouth in answer is pretty much white-washed and delusional. She will give you an answer you want to hear, or an answer that is socially acceptable and carefully tailored not to ruffle any (of her female friends’) feathers, or contravene any social or feminist laws or expectations.
(Please understand: I’m not passing judgment on women by saying this. This is not to say this is a *bad* thing at all. It’s merely how women are set up, how they work, and there’s no moral value assigned to it.)
So, we can’t rely on women to give us an accurate picture of what they want; but most of us probably knew that already. That begs the question, Do women actually believe what they say themselves? In other words, do they even know what they really want?
I think, in most cases, the answer here is No; they do not. But they sure know how to act when they begin to feel genuinely attracted to a man; they cannot help themselves, in fact.
Women Respond To….
So the million dollar question is, what do women actually respond to?
In short: feelings.
Women respond to emotional states that they find themselves in as a result of a strong masculine presence. Women are attracted to men that can make them feel a certain way, men that can put them in the right states.
One common emotional state that women enjoy being put in: challenged.
Another one: confusion.
Another: off-guard, unbalanced, uneasy.
Can you spot the pattern? If you can, give yourself a cookie. If not, let me give you another hint:
Women enjoy (and are aroused by) being made to feel that they are not in control. This is their natural emotional state as women, and it is positively and evolutionarily linked to the occurrence of them being taken care of, sheltered, provided for, and pair-bonded in a long-term survival situation.
Now that I’ve given the game away, it should be pretty clear what sort of male behavior women are really after, what they really get turned on by: dominance.
Dominance in a man is universally considered attractive by women (Matt Ridley, The Red Queen
)
Of course, when Matt Ridley or I say “dominance”, we don’t mean throwing a girl around, hitting her, or telling her what to do all the time (although done properly, that last can be golden). I specifically mean acting from a place of inherently higher value than any given woman.
Now feminists, or others of egalitarian persuasion, are going to explode over that last sentence. “Men aren’t inherently higher value than women! How dare you suggest that!”
Notice, dear feminist readers, that I didn’t say BELIEVE you are higher value; I said act from a place of higher value.
Act as if.
Fake it.
What works is acting as if you are the higher value individual in the interaction. Assume your role as a man to lead interactions, to decide the flow and pacing of conversation, the topic of conversation (see my three-part series on conversation, especially Managing The Conversation). Lead women physically where you want them to go, direct them do X or Y or pick up Z or hand you W or place nob D in hole V - and they will become extremely attracted and, in many cases, intensely turned on.
This is why teasing a girl is so powerful. The girl feels that you view her as a child (or childish), a plaything, a willing and fun companion you can play little jokes on - because she is not a serious threat to you, and following the train of logic, this is because you are naturally dominant over her. Teasing a girl in a fun way (not a mean way) tells her that you are in control of the situation and making sport because you enjoy it. She responds powerfully and positively to being teased because she is enjoying being lead by a dominant man.
Even if you don’t initially feel like you are the more dominant partner, Act As If, and it will become so through time and practice. Fake it ’till you make it.
This is why there is the constant inane exhortation to simply “be The Man” in interactions with women to get good results. Or rather, it’s not that the encouragement to “be The Man” is so bad, it’s just that, improperly explained, it’s next to useless. Who is The Man, anyway? Are your buddies encouraging you to be the faceless, nameless oppressive regime that all the hippies were fighting against in the 60’s? Are you supposed to act like a corrupt cop? Who knows?
The advice to simply “Be The Man” needs to be unpacked, thusly: be the man who doesn’t care about the female response to his conversation. Be the man who has a girlfriend waiting at home and is just chilling out at a martini bar, killing time. Be the man who loves women and enjoys teasing them but is not overly concerned with what they have to say or how they act.
We have to get away from this vague, macho advice to “be the Man” and onto more specific advice on how to generate attraction in women.
In other words: you see an attractive girl. You’d like her to become wildly wet just thinking about you. How to go about this?
Being “The Man”….Practical Advice
Well, first, she must see you as a sexual human being, realize you see her as one also, and become attracted to you. Later, she must become absolutely convinced that you will be a Sexual God in bed and bring her everything she has ever wished for in a sex partner (but that is also the topic of another article). For now, let’s look JUST at the part about her “becoming attracted to you.”
In order to be attracted to you, a modern, feminized woman in a liberal, democratic, industrial or post-industrial society must basically only have one fundamental realization:
You are cooler than she is.
You are higher value. You are more sophisticated. You are more experienced. You have better friends, or more friends. You are higher status. However you want to phrase it - I find it simplest to boil it down to the fundamental High School status mentality: you are simply cooler than she is.
That will get her attracted - and if not attracted, at least interested - in you.
The difference between her being “attracted” and “interested” is a fine point that must be further explored, of course, because most guys I know are not looking to gather 100’s of attractive women to be their best platonic pal, but instead would like 100’s of attractive women to be their best sexual pal.
But it’s enough to know, for now, that the 100% most essential thing for a woman to even possibly be attracted to you, is that you be cooler than her.
After that, she must view you as a sexual master, as noted above, and see you as an attractive personality - someone who can engage and ignite her own imagination, basically - but those are all topics we can delve into more deeply in other posts.
For now, I want to wrap up by providing pointers on how best to Spark Attraction (that is, how to Show a Woman That you are Cooler than She is):
1. Be less reactive to her comments than she is to yours.
Think of this as being Zen. You tell a joke, she cracks up; she tells a joke, you chuckle, but not as hard or as long as she did. And don’t play this off like you’re just a stiff, boring guy, or too reserved, either (if you’re not careful, it can slide into that).
2. One-up her statements in subtle ways.
If she says something that makes her more personally impressive - like that she makes a lot of money, or that she knows someone famous, say something offhand and dismissive, like “That’s cool…” rather than jumping up and down on the couch like, “OMG! That is a-MAZING! DIDJA GET HIS AUTOGRAPH!”
3. Dress in a way that says “I am cooler”
Now how exactly you do this will take more explaining on another day, and I will catch flak from guys as to how lame it is that I am advocating dressing “metro” or “gay”, but in my experience (and in the literature), there is no denying it: being a well-manicured male genuinely gets women interested in you.
On the other hand, particular types of women respond very powerfully to the unwashed / unshaved / Fresh From The Construction-Site type guy, and that’s a perfectly valid route to go as well, if you go for those types of girls.
Another way to “dress cooler”, advocated by many seduction experts, is to “peacock” - i.e. wear flashy, outrageous outfits complete with “bling” - flashy jewelry, walking sticks, top hats, crazy accessories, parrots, monkeys, toy dogs, etc. Think of how pimps or rap stars dress - or, Hell, how any black person might dress at a nightclub (if you haven’t been to many nightclubs, or seen any black people attend them, the short explanation is that black people can get away with wearing anything to a nightclub, and they do).
The bottom line is: if you want women to be attracted to you, your clothes should say “I am so cool I don’t even care what people think of me.” Of course pulling this off without looking like a complete dweeb is an art in and of itself, but we can go into that later.
4. Imagine her (whatever girl it is you are trying to attract) as a bratty 6th grader with braces and a pocket protector who just won the Middle School Spelling Bee and is trying to show you her trophy
Okay, that’s a little hyperbolic, but I think you can see what I’m getting at: make-believe in your head that she already is of lower value, and all your actions will fall into place to put yourself at a higher value naturally.
Look, #’s 1-4 above are generalized suggestions, 4 out of 10,000 I could make that would encourage men to Act Dominant. There are an infinite number of ways a man can express attraction-causing, arousal-inspiring dominance - but express it he must, or attraction will not happen.
Pedestaling and Oneitis
The reason I spend so much time belaboring the point that Dominance and Higher Value are essential to attraction is because a lot of guys have a common hang-up with women that I like to call “pedestaling“.
What “pedestaling” means is just that guys go through a process whereby they take ordinary women and attribute to them higher value than they actually have — placing them on a “pedestal”.
Mostly, this occurs because of perceived scarcity — a lack of female interaction or exposure the guy is experiencing, and then translates into some objective, overarching belief about the state of the world.
So for instance, if a guy who doesn’t get out much (and therefore doesn’t have much chance to interact with beautiful women) happens to go out one night and ends up meeting an average or even slightly-above-average girl, he will most likely start “pedestaling” her right away — OMG she’s so beautiful, she’s so intelligent, she’s so nice and happy and fun to be around, he thinks he is immediately beginning to like her, a LOT, and more than as just friends….
In other words, JUST because of perceived scarcity, the guy is boosting this random woman’s value very high, very quickly, simply because he thinks she is rare, and therefore valuable, and his fear of losing all her good qualities motivates him to see her as more valuable than she actually is.
(Of course, this “pedestaling” absolutely sabotages any chances this guy ever had of generating attraction with this girl, since he is boosting her value in his own eyes much faster than she could ever possibly boost his value in her eyes).
This is similar to Oneitis, and just as deadly to the seductive process.
On the other hand, a guy who is around beautiful women all day long (say, as part of his job, in a nightclub or modeling agency) is likely to get sick of how “bland” and “bitchy” they are, and be completely desensitized to traditional female beauty, to the point that begins to view women as a dime-a-dozen, and devaluing what they offer.
Attraction Cheat Sheet
So, to recap:
- Women respond to dominant males
- Women are attracted to, and respond to, dominant, playful behavior from these males
- Women do not want to be “pedestaled”; they would actually prefer you be a higher value than they are
Now, the extent to which a woman is attracted to a dominant man — we might call it her Dominance Threshold — is set by the average amount of dominance displayed by the males she comes into contact with on a daily basis.
So, a woman working in, say, a Dairy Queen, with a bunch of milquetoast 16-year-old boys taking orders from her, is going to have a much lower Dominance Threshold than, say, a female bartender with a beautiful body working at a very high-traffic nightclub.
In other words, the Dairy Queen woman would be much more easily impressed by the slightest demonstration of dominant masculine behavior: let’s say a good-looking, clean-cut frat boy rolling through her drive-thru in his Jeep 4×4 with his hot surfer buddies and saying “Thanks cupcake” as he takes his food.
Whereas, in that high-traffic nightclub, that same mild display of dominance by the frat boy, if directed at the beautiful female bartender, would probably cause her to throw his ass out of the club — because, to her, it was a lame and demeaning attempt at dominance, horribly ill-suited to her value in the venue.
What might work better for the bartender, in her natural environment, is a scummy, unshaven but ruggedly attractive biker (replete with leather jacket), playfully swatting her ass as she takes his order, and then winking at her afterwards. Or, she might throw his ass out, too — it depends on the woman.
And that is the biggest take-home message from this diary: It Depends. Attraction cannot be understood without understanding the crucial important of its cousin, Calibration - that is, the right kind of dominance, at the right levels, for the right girl, in the right situation.
In other words, it’s all relative — but it’s also all reality.
January 6th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
But, as with any other truth, it’s a lot harder to ACT, than to KNOW. I started reading “The Game” by Neill Strauss and he basically writes the same things as you do. It all sounds easy and obvious, but as one of these challenged guys I have to say that the real problem lies in the inability to DO it.
Strauss describes pick-up seminars, but leaves a lot open and unexplained.
Anyway, I really enjoy reading your stuff.
January 6th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
I’ve read the game. The guy leaves a lot open and unexplained because it’s not supposed to be a taxonomic “how to game” book He leaves that for Mystery and all the other guys publishing $69 e-books ;) The Game is really just supposed to be an easy-to-read narrative as well as an introduction to the community.
For a while, I thought Neil was just another sell-out interested in making a quick buck off other guy’s social awkwardness. After seeing him more and more in the media, I’ve come around: I think he genuinely went on a journey himself through all this. I think he genuinely does want other guys to improve and wants to help.
Of course I haven’t met him….but when I do, I will report back with what I think :)
January 27th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Nice try. I think you are making a valiant attempt at understanding and categorizing a quality that is as individual as each human is different. But if it makes you feel like you are in control, who am I to discourage you from getting you needs met.
Personally what makes a man attractive is impeccable grooming, nice cologne, and a big bank account.
Seriously, I’d be happy if I could find a man I could use like a feminine hygiene product. Three to five days or until the itch goes away.
No wait, really, seriously, men are more trouble than they are worth. I’d rather stay home with my vibrator.
January 28th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Diane,
Thanks for reading and commenting.
People may have somewhat individualized preferences, but those preferences do not overrule the general truths that exist along gender lines. I wouldn’t write it if it weren’t so; that would just mislead people and be pointless.
I am not writing politically. These are not polemics; they are intended to be practical.
But, I approved this particular comment of yours because it proves one of the first points made in the article: the disconnect between what women are willing to *say* they find attractive, and what they actually respond to.
Your comments about using a man will no doubt confirm some men’s beliefs that all women are self-centered, ignorant and manipulative. Is that really something you want to do for your gender?
On the other hand, plenty of men say that women are just wrapping paper around ultimately interchangeable pussies and mouths. So I guess your statement fits into that level of gender discourse; sadly.
Your frustration with men — and your belief that your vibrator is a perfectly acceptable substitute — reflect ignorance. If you understood men better, they wouldn’t give you as much “trouble”, and additionally they’d be worth more to you :)
A vibrator is very simple. On off switch, or power level, battery holder, maybe a few attachments. If that is the level of simplicity you want in a relationship, I can only conclude that you have either had very few relationships, or very bad ones — and again, i think it all boils down to understanding.
Seek first to understand, then be understood.
It is possible, with a close reading, to reverse-engineer an understanding of men from what’s written on this site :)
January 29th, 2007 at 4:51 am
Like mentioned, it is Far harder to actually pull of these tatics
compared to knowing and thinking about them
i must give you my respect for providing an intelligent response to that post above
June 10th, 2007 at 8:23 am
Of course it’s a lot harder to use the material skillfully than to just know them. That is why you must practice; you can’t get better at anything until you practice.
It is like basketball.
Simply knowing that you must dribble down the court and shoot the ball into the basket is not enough. You must actually practice to become a good basketball player.
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:47 am
Man this is the most brilliant post about seduction iv read so far.
Women are perverted, this is a perverted world, sorry girls, it does not mean that you are not worthy but your psyschology is like that.
August 5th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
I lately had a date with a girl and it is amazing how easy women are turned on by simply showing dominant behaviour.
After less than 4 hours she was so turned on that she would have agreed to almost anything (yes, I f-closed her the same day)
Many men (myself included) are often too afraid of risking to loose a girl by being too rude, but you MUST risk loosing the girl…everything else is POINTLESS(!)
so challenge her: “oh, THERE you live/sounds like a..mh..NICE job/you drink a lot do you?/now you tell me sth. funny, exiting/seen that girl over there..wow!/etc.
If the conversation drops dont say anything and after a while simply say: “so you are more the silent type of girl, mh!?”
Order sth to eat and if she wants some, then feed her
And one of my favourites is: poke her!on the street!with no reason!
if she asks what u doing poke her again, if she likes it/reacts on it–>good sign
Important: everything must be done in a charming way (SMILE!), NEVER insult her in a too offensive way.
And be prepared, depending on the type of girl she will shit test the hell out of you…but who cares, she’s just a bratty 6th grader;)
Anyway, it’s amazing to see how it works in REALITY
so, good luck to everybody
take care!
August 6th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
can someone explain to me whats bothering me , i have average body so i m not ugly but i m not attractive. I have a really pretty ltr who i lust for her body, i mean when i see her pussy, tits, ass…. i just wanna consume her, every part of her.
What i dont understand is how can she lust for me if i have average body, like she would lust for Adonis for example because he would have perfect penis, perfect body etc and it would seem logical that she feels toward him similar what i feel toward her, lust.
So i m confused here, and i wonder can i give a woman such pleasure that a male model could give to her.
I m sorry for my confusion, maybe i got some terms misplace here too.
I really wanna clear this out though.
August 7th, 2007 at 1:45 am
Hey ivan,
You can give a woman just as much pleasure as the “hottest” male model; or more.
That’s because women derive pleasure from a dominant man, who can take charge and lead. And even the hottest man, if he’s not leading, is not attractive to them.
For women, lust = his mind.
For men, lust = her body.
Gross oversimplification, but true.
August 9th, 2007 at 12:41 am
thity thanx ffor clarifying that, now i can die happily :D
I m recommending your site to my pua friends every day,
its clear that your intention is to help people, not write gibberish like some other sites out there, this site is truly a saver and eye opener, thank you from heart on it.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
EXCELLENT. This is probably the only article any guy needs. Excellent.
November 8th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
The more control a woman has over her life, the more she wants to be controlled in the bedroom.
No one knows what she’s like in the bedroom except her partner.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:03 am
Also… using the terms “higher value” and “dominance” is really not necessary. Higher value is another
one of those PUA coined terms that is just silly. Great for use in a MSN chatroom of ’seduction artists’
or whatever, but inappropriate for use in more mainstream dialogue.
The simple point is that men need to act like the male of our species and women tend to act like the
female of the species. And if you need a clue as to how male and female members of primate species
act, do some research. Then take note that our genomes are close to identical to these ‘primitive’
animals. A few mutated genes here and there and homo sapiens underwent a massive brain expansion.
Result is we’ve got huge brains, language, culture, the internet, etc. and the chimps are still just
chimps. But if you think that those few mutated genes, the ones that separate us from the chimps, are
enough to rengineer the entire human brain to be entirely different to the chimp, you are mistaken.
The changes were additive. The reason we’re here today is because our ancestors behaved with moral
ineptitude. They were animals. A pack of them. Watch the Discovery Channel for clues. This is
evolution in action. Its not pretty but it works. Survival and reprodcution. [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[uc[C[C[C[C[C[CThere’s nothing in there
about cologne or bank accounts. ON a microscale yes, these things can be relevant, but in the big
picture it’s more about who’s the manliest man and where are all the females. We can focus on microscale
things but the truth is, the qaulities of animals we see on the Discovery Channel have been more
important to our survival than anything we have invented with our massively expanded brain power, i.e.,
culture.
December 12th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
most useful post on the internet.
January 31st, 2008 at 8:53 am
I don’t think it only comes from our ancient time. It is in every species and animals. It’s not just because of our homosapiens did it, they did it because it is so, a female is attracted to the leading male.
April 16th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Class!
Dont think it, Know it!
;)
I am a believer and know this is true. i Prove it to myself… one day i just said fuck this… I’m the man! and it worked instantly… and the more you meet the more you believe, the more you believe the more they believe the more you meet! LOVE THE CIRCLE. just get on it!
KNOW IT!
:)
every morning weak up and look in the mirror smiling saying ‘you’re the man’ or ‘I’m the man’ whatever… just know it
May 9th, 2008 at 1:25 am
OK what about this one.
What do you do if you are a man who finds the idea of totally and completely dominating a woman in bed to be a turn-off?
I can fake dominant behavior in real life just fine- and whenever I do I get female attention- but when it comes the sack, I like to feel loved and protected just like any woman- i.e., after sex I like to lie on her chest, be caressed and petted, etc.
My girlfriend has recently began complaining about this, because it doesn’t fit gender roles, and her ticks are much more “typical” than mine.
So basically, certain things that turn me on turn most women off. How can I indulge in these things with a partner without seeming “less masculine” by your definition?
May 16th, 2008 at 1:26 am
Rob,
Well…..
By the biological rules of dominance and submission, you will always probably be viewed as “less dominant” if you indulge in less-dominant behaviors. Even if she accepts you as you are temporarily, subconsciously she will not respond to you the same was as she will respond to a man who will give her a good, stiff fucking complete with rough handling.
If I were you I would be looking at what it is inside me that makes me act that way.
June 6th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Rob & 30+
I think what Rob is feeling is perfectly normal. Here is an edited excerpt from a book on male and female brain chemistry:
“Female hormones make the woman’s brain better wired for Iong-term romantic activity than the man’s. Nowhere do we see this more clearly than in oxytocin activity in the hypothalamus. Male oxytocin (bonding chemical) levels are lower than in females. In many men, they can be ten times lower. Just as testosterone levels are much higher in males, oxytocin levels are generally higher in females.
“However, there is one time of the day when the male oxytocin levels approach the normal female levels - during sexual orgasm. When a man ejaculates, his oxytocin level shoots up to the levels that females experience during other times of the day. When a man ejaculates, he bonds utterly with her.
…
“During orgasm, the female-dominant chemical became his dominant chemical. Testosterone and vasopressin, which got him to the point where he could successfully achieve coitus, receded in dominance - their job complete - and oxytocin, the bonding chemical, took over. But then testosterone and vasopressin begin their journey hack to dominance, while oxytocin recedes.
“One of the primary reasons that men want sex more than women (on average) is because it feels so good to them to have the high oxytocin - it feels great to feel so bonded with someone. …we call love.”
What you experience is normal, and actually shows greater than average self awareness. The question is how are you going to deal with it? Can you figure out ways to enjoy the feeling of being bonded without appearing to become submissive?
June 7th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
JBP,
Great post. You are really on top of the neurochemistry.
My only concern with Rob is that what it seems he was describing is a general distaste for the idea of being very sexually assertive. In other words, even pre-orgasm, I think Rob may be bringing into the bedroom lower levels of testosterone *in general*.
I have no argument with post-coital bliss. I don’t wanna do ANYTHING after an orgasm — much less jump on a chick for Round 2. That’s the oxytocin talking. But, give me 15 minutes, and the testosterone and vasopressin come back and I’m ready again.
But, that said, I totally agree with the last part of your post JBP (well, all of it) — Rob, it’s really gonna be up to you to figure out how both you AND Your girlfriend can get your needs met in the bedroom. Knowing a little more about neurochemistry won’t hurt in that respect, and neither will the other things that have been said.
JBP, ace post, thanks.
July 13th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Not so much a distaste for being sexually aggressive– when I want sex, I initiate– so much as what I want the sex and its aftermath to be like. I like the woman on top, having her shove my head into her pussy to give her cuninlingus the way a man stereotypically shoves a woman’s head while she’s giving him head… and during cuddling, I like my head on HER chest, rather than the other way around.
But I will still rip her clothes off, spank her, etc. I just ask she not monopolize the submissive role for herself; I have as much right to my sexual preferences as she does.
July 13th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Also, I have a problem with your description of “you are cooler than she is… you have more friends, or better friends…”
The gist of this statement… indeed most of your blog… seems to be that all the petty things I agonized over in high school–and the adults told me didn’t matter–are, in fact, what matters to attracting women.
You are suggesting that people never grow up.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:34 am
Hey Rob,
I think what you’re saying is that you just have more naturally even levels of “masculine” and “feminine” energy — as opposed to the majority of guys, who will tend more towards the “masculine” energy than the “feminine”, who prefer to control more than being controlled, to dominate and direct rather than be dominated and directed, etc.
~~
This difference could be hormonal, socialized, or both (and my money is on that last one).
~~
There’s nothing wrong with this. Just know that you will be attracted to (and happier with) women who are also more “balanced” in terms of masculine vs. feminine energy, i.e. women who want to take more the “man’s role” in bed, dominate more, be more assertive, initiate more, etc. There will just always be less of a distance between your sexual “temperature” and your partner’s, throughout your life.
~~
There’s nothing wrong with this and no judgment implied. It’s just a rarer case.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:36 am
“The gist of this statement… indeed most of your blog… seems to be that all the petty things I agonized over in high school–and the adults told me didn’t matter–are, in fact, what matters to attracting women.
You are suggesting that people never grow up.”
~~
Inside, most people truly don’t.
~~
Also…those adults who were telling you things when you were in high school? They either didn’t understand these social dynamics, or did, and were deliberately misleading you to make you feel better.
~~
I don’t write what makes people feel good. I write what works, actually, for real, in the real world.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:54 am
So by your analysis, having few friends and being less extroverted than average is inherently unattractive to women?
My beef is that ALL the men in my family are introverted like this. I’ve been diagnosed with a mild case of asperger’s syndrome (which I’ve overcome to the point that the only manifestation is mild social awkwardness), and my grandfather probably has it as well, albeit undiagnosed. My father is less like this, but is still no socialite.
My friendship needs are met by a few good friends. My “group of buddies” for bar-hopping are usually my roommates and thus change every year.
Thus the number of friends I have is low, and most of my friends are similarly quirky like myself- they all have non-mainstream tastes in music and entertainment, and my closest friend is visibly nerdy.
Yet these are the type of people I enjoy hanging with. Will this inherently makes me seem less “alpha” to women?
July 16th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Rob,
I appreciate your frustration with the seeming immaturity of it all. Believe me, when I realized how easy it is to seduce the average wife, it disconcerted me no little. Nevertheless, I believe that maturity is not the best way to conceptualized the issue. One simple fact will shed light on the utility of thinking of it in these terms:
Attraction is not a choice.
Sure, every day many women rationally choose to marry a man to gain a partner in life and raise a family. This is a mature choice, but it has little to do with attraction. These are the women who rarely if ever orgasm with their husbands. Attraction is not morality or maturity, it is biology.
Yes, one has a right to one’s sexual preferences, but standing on one’s rights is irrelevant to attraction. Women also have the right to choose their partners. You can stand on your rights, but you may be standing alone.
Maturity also means accepting reality in order to achieve one’s goals. Which or the following is better: (1) the Wright brothers sitting around grumbling about the difficulty of overcoming gravity; or (2) the Wright brothers thinking about how to bend the laws of physics to their will.
So I say again, how can you bend the laws of biology to your will so that you can meet both your girlfriend’s needs and your needs?
July 24th, 2008 at 6:44 am
JBP
My (now-ex) girlfriend always orgasmed with me via cuninlingus. Never in her life has she ever orgasmed via coitus, and she has only once orgasmed through cuninlingus with someone else.
Because I was the only one she could count on to consistently make her orgasm, she even agreed to maintain a FWB relationship with me after we broke up.
If you’re suggesting that the level of dominance shown by a man correlates with how often his partner orgasms, my own experience seems to contradict that.
To get a woman to orgasm, all you need to do eat pussy, and do it well.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:15 am
Oh and given how her other current fuck-buddy is a certified alpha male (complete with 9-inch cock), and yet (according to her) never makes her orgasm, I fail to see how dominance plays any roll in providing a female orgasm.
Her complaints were not so much about how I acted DURING sex as how I acted AFTER- we basically were fighting over who would do the holding during cuddling, and who would be held.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:33 am
And JBP:
I have long known that confidence (I prefer this term to “dominance”) is necessary to getting women. I also know that this is something I do need to work on and am willing and able to do so. I would think losing 80 pounds and getting some semblance of a social life in my senior year of high school (3 years ago) proves this.
What I am simply not willing to do is sacrifice who I am as a person– I’m not, and never will be Mr. Social, and consider myself a proud nerd who likes things like history and sci-fi.
My question is– is it really necessary to change this fundamental aspect of my identity to become more attractive to women? Will a core group of friends and average social skills be enough to attract women if I pair it with a quirky sense of humor (always gets people to like me), novelty (I’m an archaeologist-in-training), and good looks (I’m either “cute” or “hot” depending on how attractive (or how drunk) the woman in question is).
I feel my problem is not attracting women per se so much as knowing how and when to make a move– I get looks all the time; I just rarely do anything about them due to not knowing what to say or do.
Although thirtyplus claims to write “what actually works… for real, in the real world”, I can’t help but express skepticism. I have attempted to implement his and other similar seduction techniques and have not noticed much improvement. The whole industry seems like a giant scam, and I find that really, improving my physique and posture- along with having a handsome face- has gotten me more results than any pickup lines ever can.
Not that I’m a Don Juan by any means, but I don’t want to be. I just want to be able to start a conversation with an attractive stranger without seeming awkward or intimidated. And I want to know that when the time comes to make a move, I can trust myself not to puss out.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Rob, rob, rob.
I have a huge amount of patience. Really, I do. But what you are exhibiting here is a stubborn willfulness that borders on inflammatory.
Everyone on this thread has tried to help you. You do not appear open to help. Therefore the attempts to help will go away. You are the horse that has been led to a great beautiful lake but is convinced you smell sewage.
PS. I suppose you may derive some self-esteem from being reduced to a living vibrator by your ex-girlfriend, but I think it’s rather unfortunate. For your own good: Don’t let women use you like that.
July 26th, 2008 at 5:47 am
I’m the one who broke up with her just so you know. And I was the one who suggested this arrangement. Don’t make assumptions about a situation until you know what’s going on. I fail to see how getting NSA sex from an ex-girlfriend constitutes me “being used”.
Oh and I apologize if I seem stubborn; it stems from my own frustration with an inability to be uber-social even when I try to be. I’m VERY skeptical by nature, and push for evidence.